FTP: What do you think is the connection between the logging of old-growth redwood forests and what happened in New York and Washington, D.C.? What do you think it says about the state of the world right now?

  JB: It seems to me from my personal perspective with research I’ve done, as well as talking to people (which to me is one of the most powerful forms of research), that at this point a lot of the violence that’s happening in the world is around and over the struggle for power which is always associated with resources and money. And money of course is 90 percent of the time linked to resources and the control of those resources. Because resources are what we need in order to survive. And so that’s the highest form of power is those who control what we need in order to survive. I see this link as to what happened in DC and New York in that we, as Americans, are the largest consumers of resources worldwide even though we are not the largest country.

So this plays in to old-growth logging, this plays into strip mining, into mountain top removal. I've been sent some information by people in Tucson asking for my help on a particular issue where a watershed has been committed to golf courses for the next 100 years. So things that seem innocuous like a golf course, to something like the disappearance of old growth forests world wide — there’s this continual connection of destroying what we need for what we want. And that ends up oppressing not only the planet but its people. I feel that what has happened — this isn’t to justify what happened — what happened in NY and Washington D.C. is reprehensible. It’s horrible. It’s filled with grief and sadness and there’s no excuse for what those people did. But there are …

  FTP: Reasons?

  JB: Reasons. And there are dots that must be connected in order to keep this from happening again.

  FTP: Do you think there's hope for peace in the world?

  JB: I think that hope lies in the hearts and minds and body and spirit of every person. I was just at a peace rally the other day with about 2,000 people and I would have estimated about one out of every ten was carrying a paper cup or a Styrofoam cup in their hands or a Styrofoam to-go container. So I started out by asking the question, “How many people here believe in peace?” And of course everybody roared and I said, “It starts at home … look in your hands and see what’s there.” If we're being violent against the Earth in our daily life, how can we believe there's going to be world peace? Living a disposable life is one of the most violent forms of living that we have and it is an extreme amount of violence. So I believe world peace is possible but I don’t think its going to happen when governments decide to quit bombing each other — it's gotta go deeper than that. Its not going to matter what our gender is, what our religious preferences are, what our sexual preferences are, its gonna be when all of us are living examples of peace.

  FTP: With the Taliban exerting such gross human rights violations on women and children … do you have any ideas for helping to stop these human rights violations, without military force?

  Absolutely. The first thing that has to be said though is that I don’t know of any woman in Afghanistan or Pakistan that’s saying, “Bomb the hell out of us! We’re gonna be free!” I actually wrote a poem. I literally had this vision of myself being one of those women. It was really powerful and I immediately went into this deep place of empathy that just totally overcame me. And it was really intense and this poem came through as a result. And the gist of the poem is what it would be like to be a woman there, knowing what’s going on. And out of one side of your mouth (you’re) spitting at the U.S. government, knowing they're using them as an excuse for their violence when all along the U.S. government hasn’t acknowledged their suffering.

  FTP: They helped create that government…

  JB: Yeah, exactly, we’ve not done anything to help free them. We gave 340 million dollars to that same government. And then in the past it's been, “Well, that’s a cultural thing and we don’t have a right to step on their toes or somebody’s culture.” Hello? We’ve been doing it in this country since Columbus stepped foot. So to be that woman out of one side of your mouth, to be spitting in anger and grief at the United States government and out of the other side of your mouth begging and pleading and hoping that maybe this time, there might be some help. And what a torn place it must be to be one of those women right now. To be begging and pleading for the lives and the safety of your children and your sisters and your mothers. Of knowing that it's probably not going to happen. So for me the solution that I've been advocating is number one, I constantly say we must honor the absolute fear and grief that everyone is going through in the United States right now. Because if we don’t, our peace statements are going to be nothing more than rhetoric where the choir gets rallied up but no one else is listening.

The first thing we have to do is put our selves in the shoes of people who are frightened out of their mind and hurting like hell. For me I know to say, “No war, no war.” No war is an important message, but at the same time recognizing that we're dropping bombs right now. So that's been my statement all along, knowing they we’re going to show some sort of military force. I have this vision of high school boys flexing their muscles. I knew that amount was going to happen whether it turned into a full out war or not.

So my solution is for every dollar they spend on the military they must spend a dollar on seeds — non-genetically modified seeds of course — on drilling for water because this area is in drought and the people are starving to death. A dollar on healthy food, a dollar on medicine, a dollar on clothing, whatever they need. And then for every military person they send over they must send a military person to protect the seeds, the water, the medicine, the food, the mothers, the children. Because in that country right now, just sending aid isn’t doing anything. The people who are going to end up with that aid, if they’re lucky enough to even get to it because they’re doing these air drops from ridiculously high heights and to places that sometimes have landmines. So some people are probably going to get blown to smithereens trying to recover it. But if they get it, if they don’t hide it really quick and hoard it, it’s going to get found out really quick and it’s going to get stolen by the same regime that’s been oppressing them all this time. So they’re going to need some form of protection. And we would build incredible world support if instead of spending all our time and energy blowing people up and blowing up countries and showing muscle, if we showed a little bit of heart instead. And all these anti-American protests that are going on right now — that would immediately begin to shift if instead of dropping bombs we were sending people in with food and supplies and lifting sanctions and things like that.

  FTP: Do you think it is possible to change people's deeply held values and beliefs? For instance, is it possible to change the values of someone who believes military force is the only solution to the current situation?

  JB: I know it's possible, just by seeing what happened in my life, you know? I was raised with deep, deep, deep values and religion, and God was all that mattered. And then I went through a change where that didn’t matter and my religion and my God became making money. And so my deeply ingrained beliefs, from the time I was a child till adolescence, were what my parents told me because that was all I knew of the world. Then, as I got to the point in my development where I could think critically about the world, then the inundation of society began to overwhelm me. Then I had an epiphany and went from being a financial consultant business major to a tree hugger. (Laughs.)

 So I know from personal experience its possible. But it takes different things for different people. For most people it takes crisis. It takes some form of crisis. For me the biggest epiphany happened when the steering wheel of the car hit my skull. And right now in this intense time of crisis we are ripe for transformation. And we are just full, we are in this nutrient-rich soil inviting us to change, inviting us to transform.

For some people all it takes is a little bit of information. They don't need crisis, they need information. They’ve been inundated with mainstream press their whole life and then one day they come across an alternative, what we call alternative newspaper — like yours, and they pick it up and scan through it for the heck of it and all of the sudden they’re being informed about things they didn’t even know existed and their lives begin to change.

For some people it’s inspiration. They have information but the information itself is too overwhelming so they never do anything until they hear an inspiring story of you know, a 16-year-old who stopped an oil pipeline from going through her backyard. Or they hear of a mother who stopped a toxic incinerator. You know, there's all these inspirational stories and sometimes that’s all it takes. So those are the things that I see are a way for change. So yes it’s possible. Sometimes more than not it takes crisis but it can take just information or inspiration.

 FTP: One of my favorite quotes in your book was, "I knew that if I continued to debate politics and science – and staying in the mind instead of the heart and the spirit – it would always be about one side vs. the other." As an activist, how do you balance being educated about a subject while reaching people on a deeper level?

  JB: That’s a great question. Because in the beginning, when I didn’t have the information, all I had was just a lot of care. I got ripped apart in the press. But not just in the press. Because my action was to call attention to an issue and then the longer I stayed I realized it was more than just an issue, it was about consciousness. But I didn’t have facts to back it up – I knew intuitively what was right and wrong. I knew in my heart what was right and wrong, but when I didn’t have the facts I got blown out of the water. And so for me I learn the facts constantly. It's hard for me. I’m in a different city every day. And I’m learning about those local issues in every town I go to. You know? And so I am a constant sponge trying to absorb information so that I can be relevant to where I’m going. So its more than just, “Hey, here comes Julia Butterfly.”

Like where you are there was the pumice mine and now there's been a win on that but it’s still tenuous and it’s going to require people staying vigilant so that traditional, sacred mountain and those traditional people will be protected. And Big Mountain, with the struggle over water and uranium and coal with the Hopi and Diné and the government. And learning these issues constantly, everywhere I go.

But when I talk, I talk from the heart. Because over and over and over again that's where they get stuck. An example being when I was debating the public relations person for Pacific Lumber when I was in the tree — and this woman gets paid to have answers. And at the end of one interview they asked me, “Well, what would it take, Julia, to end this struggle?'”

And I said, “Honestly, what it's going to take is when people and companies like Pacific Lumber around the world decide to honor and respect life and come from a place of love for life over love for money.” And I said, “It doesn’t mean they can’t make money but their values have got to switch where life is more important than money.” And I said, “When that happens, then the struggle will be over.”

And the moderator turned to (the public relations person) and said, “Do you have any response?” And she stuttered for a minute and she said, “No, I don’t know what to say to that.”

  FTP: As an activist, is it difficult for you to live the less materialistic lifestyle?

  JB: No, but I would add something to it. I think one of the biggest diseases in our movement of consciousness — and I think anything that’s anything working towards ecological, cultural, social healing and sustainability is the movement of consciousness—and in the movement of consciousness I think one of our diseases is the belief that has been pushed on us by the mainstream media is that as activists we have to suffer in order to prove our relevancy, in order to prove our value. You know, I see activists’ teeth that are rotting out of people’s heads. Their vehicles that they use to go to supervisors meetings over and over again are falling apart. And their whole lives are deteriorating. And I think if we're working towards true sustainability of the earth, well, we are sacred earth too. Taking care of the holy and sacred temple of the body and of our daily lives in this movement towards health and well being and sustainability of the whole world, living the truth that we're talking about. I really encourage people to step out of that paradigm that says simplicity means suffering, and that we have to do without in order to live a simple life and prove our value.

For me, I have found that living a life of simplicity brings about more free time and more joy. And all my free time gets used up right now, and I’m actually working to change that, because I haven’t been living the best example of sustainability in my life. I've been giving every ounce of everything I have to the rest of the world and I haven’t been keeping any of it for me. And I’m realizing that I want to do this work for a lifetime and if I’m going to do it I have to take care of me too.

  FTP: For instance, do you purposefully try not to stay at expensive hotels or eat at expensive restaurants?

  JB: Let me give you an example. I don’t eat at expensive restaurants every day. I've eaten at expensive restaurants a couple of times, and I really enjoyed it. I think if somebody were to say, “That’s wrong, you should do that,” I think that’s someone who's forgotten, or feels that we have to do without in order to prove our value. I’m like that in so many aspects in my life. I don’t live by these downtrodden lists of rules that I have to adhere to. Rather, I look at the choices that I have in this moment and try and choose what I think is really important for the world. And I feel like I live so much the belief. But I also believe something that I think gets forgotten a lot: I also believe that we're given this life to have joy and experience the wonder of living. My whole life I have tithed 10 percent or more of my income and given it away. My whole life. When I was five and I started my first job and now I give away all of it. I mean, it’s ridiculous. But I’m working to change that.

But it never felt like eating at an expensive restaurant or something like that was bad. I think people that are doing it every day, their life’s really sad, because (of) the amount they could be helping somebody. But also, every time I've gone to eat in expensive restaurants, the amount I leave for tip, I also account that much that I have to give away to homeless people that I see. And that’s a part that I figure in to an expensive meal. I know that if I’m gonna spend 20 dollars, and the tip is going to be three bucks or four bucks, than I’m gonna have to add another four bucks into that equation. And I know that’s how much I’m gonna spend that night, cause the other extra I’m gonna use to go buy a dinner for someone that’s hungry.

  FTP: What are you goals for the future? Running for president, living on a farm and having 20 kids?

  JB: Well, my goals are to live a life of loving, joyous service to the world. That’s what I say every morning. I wake up and I say, “How can I offer my life today in loving joyous service to the world?” But that does turn into some forms of strategy. I think that a lot of people, we get really caught up in that paradigm. We have to set these goals, we have to attain them and if we don’t we’ve failed. And we've lost our purpose. And that is a huge huge drive of ego that we’ve got to let go of. We can’t control the world. We can only do our best. For me, that’s what sustains me in times like this when things are really difficult. What sustains me is that I’m not attached to the outcome, I’m just attached to, “How can I live today as best as I can?” How can I offer my life today, in loving joyous service to the world? Now, that could take numerous different paths, especially since I've gained notoriety for what I've done — it's opened more doors than I even know what to do with sometimes. Some of my short terms goals are developing curriculum for young people, that uses creativity and inspiration and information in activating youth to realize that their value is not in the symbol that’s on their clothing or in what part of town they live in. Short term for the next few years is going to be developing this foundation to be a foundation that’s really serving the activist community in all of its facets.

I have considered political office. And then when I told the press, the mainstream press, they portray it like I’m going to run at some point. And I just said I considered it because I consider everything that comes my way. Right now I don’t feel that’s where I can be most effective, so I’m not gonna do it. I don’t want to have children, I believe that, uh…

  FTP: Are you going to adopt?

  JB: Yes. But when you tell someone they shouldn’t have kids it hits people viscerally, because to have the magical experience, especially as a woman of giving birth —  it's one of our highest powers that we have. It sets us in a really unique mold that’s as close to creation as we can get. And so to be a part of creation is very magical for people. So what I do tell people is if they have to have that experience I honor it, but that I encourage them to only have one and then to adopt the rest. Because we have a huge responsibility to the children that are already there. And if they have a kid, look at how many people are on this planet and look at what they’re really bringing the kid into. And if they have two more kids, then they’re literally stripping away the future of those children by having that many. So that’s what I tell people when I debate population control. But personally I would never bring a child into this world – I think it’s the meanest thing somebody could do.

  FTP: Development and the invasion of Big Box stores are issues many Flagstaff residents are concerned with. What advice do you have for our activist community?

 JB: Check out places like Telluride, Colo., (which) has very specific ordinances on growth and development, and there's numerous models across the country. To be forward thinking. That you’re not only going to develop laws that help in the short term, but develop them in a way that runs with the land, such as conservation easement, so that you don’t have to fight the same battle again five years from now or ten years from now. Another example is in California, in northern California, there was a huge Wal-Mart development initiating and the city and county rallied around it and made it so difficult for Wal-Mart to get a permit that Wal-Mart decided not to do it.

And the campaign was a real positive one too, instead of just harping on the evils of corporations which everyone’s heard about and people start rolling their eyes after time and say, “Can't you guys say something more interesting?” What they did was they went out and researched all the mom and pop stores that were left that Wal-Mart would put out of business. And they went to those people individually and said, “Did you know that Wal-mart's coming in, do you realize what its going to do to your business and how can we help you hold on to your business?” And they developed a plan around that, around community values and sustainability of the local economy.  Versus money that was just going to get sucked up.

Companies like that always say they’re going to bring jobs but then the activists got down to business and they did the research of how much of that local money actually stayed in the community and how much goes back to corporate headquarters. And by the time it was all done, people who in the beginning were saying, 'Yeah, Wal-Mart is gonna bring in cheap products that we can afford,” got on board and helped stop Wal-Mart. Because they saw the cause and effects of what Wal-marts do and they heard from their local businesses, people saying, “Hey, we’ve been here for 50 years and if Wal-Mart comes in were gonna fold.” So those are two of my suggestions.

  FTP: What's been the most difficult part of fame, as a well known environmental activist?

  JB: Every part of fame for me is difficult. Because the majority of the world knows me as this woman who became famous for an action. Only a handful of people know me as the woman who's favorite thing is to sit in the corner of a café, drinking my tea or coffee and watching everybody else. Not being the one they’ve watched. You know, playing a game of chess in the evening with close friends, really into being closed in my personal life and in my life. I wasn’t this world known person. Being in the limelight – it's so intense. Because all of the sudden I’m no longer a human being to people, I’m a product. I’m an issue, I’m a product, I’m an example, I’m a cause, I am anything but a human being.

But I’m a human being, and I get my feelings hurt just like anyone else. I laugh at funny jokes, I cry when I’m sad, and that gets stripped away when you become the focus of the limelight. But I have the opportunity to shine that limelight on so many important issues, on so many important people … that's why I choose to stay.

  FTP: Any last words for a small town alternative newspaper?

  JB: Are you guys printing on recycled content?

  FTP: Yes.

  JB: Are you using soy-based ink?

  FTP: Yes.

  JB: Right frickin' on. You know, my only thing I would say then is, somewhere in there pat yourselves on the back. And encourage people. As Gandhi says, we must be the change which we want to see in the world. Encourage people when they’re talking about no more development  and things to look at how many cars are in their family’s driveway. And look in their trashcans and see how much waste we have and those kinds of things. Make sure that we're really living the example.